So this is just kind of a record keeping thing to say that if Wayne's plow business messes up the yard next door, Wayne's business has to clean it up, or if Michelle's lawn care throws grass out in the street, they've got to clean it up, and right now we have no record keeping for that, and it happens more than you know, or they damage curb or sidewalk or something like that in the course of their business and it falls back on the city to fix and repair.


So that is really the issue here, and so we're just trying to get a record keeping of who's working where, knowing that we have responsible people working in the community and doing good work.


Manager Boyer? Just to add to what Darren said also, you know, you don't think of grass clippings in the right of way as being dangerous, but if you have grass clippings spread out at an intersection and a motorcycle comes to a stop, I mean, it can cause somebody to lose and others.


There's a bike right there in the intersection. So I just wanted to create or mention that safety concern as well.


Okay, so I get the whole accountability thing, but what I don't understand is, I mean, we have lots of general contractors that are busy all summer long, but in the wintertime they want to do snow plowing.


So now we want to hit them again with a different license. Why can't it just come under the same license as long as they declare it?


Well, there's different requirements and we also currently do it so that, let's say you're going to be, you're a general contractor.


if you go to do plumbing work, you have to get a separate plumbing license, pay for that, pass that test, prove that you're doing that work.


If you're going to do electricians, you're going to do electrical work, you have to get electrical license, pay for that, so that we currently have that in place.


And also, I just also want to add that this ordinance is more restrictive than it's not, it's just going to be as simple as saying, okay, we're going to declare, there's quite a bit of staff time proving that there's insurance for all these vehicles, collecting all that and John.


And the other thing is, I think, there's a lot of data. There's extra requirements for this particular .


So you're actually wanting more data from someone that's mowing your grass versus someone that's building your house?


I don't. That's what's being proposed by our Superintendent of Public Works. Yes. anyone else that hasn't spoken once yet and so I'll open it up for the second time Alderman Monroe thank you madam mayor I can tell you in my neighborhood the folks that do the plowing that do the leaf cleanup the lawn mowing they're not the ones damaging the property it's the city workers we've actually come to to the city where copious amounts of salt was thrown on people's yards killing their grass killing the edges of the road plowing them up and those that are doing the plowing or the snow blowing or such they're not a problem and I've got two neighbors that have complained a significant amount over the last few years and none of the work was done to repair their grass to repair the soil at and others.


And, you know, this really seems onerous to me that we're going to go out and say, okay, well, you've got to supply all of this information and your business falls under the same insurance.


You're not going to have insurance for plowing, insurance for snow removal or plowing versus grass cleanup versus leaf cleanup versus all of those things.


And, you know, I think as long as they have annual insurance, it should be one license Brown, and the other folks that are doing that type of work.


They are not making the same amount of money as a plumber or an electrician who charge exorbitant amounts compared to the lawn guys.


Just speaking here, but we can call it a license, we can call it a fee, we can call it a tax. It's all the same thing.


We've got to clean this up a little bit and take care of our businesses because a lot of those folks are just Cochran.


We are taking care of, my ward especially has a large amount of seniors living there who get their lawns done, and I'd hate to see their lawn cleanup go up 10-15 bucks a time based on them having to keep applying for licenses and such.


It just doesn't make sense to me. Manager Boyer? Just to comment on that and address, I personally do not have any issue with combining them and I'm under one license, but I do want to mention that our plow truck drivers are doing the very best job they can. As a matter of fact, when you have a cul-de-sac, no curbs, you have situations where you've got a 10-ton truck or a 10-yard truck with a plow on the front, makes it very challenging. And I believe our snow plow drivers are really fantastic at what they do. There's always room for improvement, of course, but there is going to be a few There's still a few times you scalp a yard off but, I'm I'm quite fine with revisiting this and making it under one license thank you.


Any further discussion? Okay we'll move on to item number 18, which is the adoption of resolution 2024%-120%.


Resolution in support of the Bird City Illinois initiative. Manager Boyer. Thank you, Your Honor. The Mayor's City staff has been working with the Northern Illinois Audubon Society on renewing the Bird City Illinois recognition. It was first given to the City in 2022. The City of Freeport is looking to retain its recognition as Bird City Illinois community. Thanks to its unique initiatives to highlight and save wildlife in our region, according to the Northwest Illinois Audubon Society, Freeport fulfills the following, which are necessary for recognition.


So it provides sufficient bird habitat, promotes pollinator health, is recognized as a Tree City USA participant, maintains a public demonstration of gardens to be benefited by birds and wildlife and ecosystems, maintains a public golf course that benefits birds, works to mitigate water pollution through cleanup events, implements actions to reduce pollution, utilizes integrated Pest Management and Natural Pest Control, celebrates World Migratory Bird Day and hosts an annual bird day event, increases awareness of birds and their habitats, educates all ages on birds and conservation related programs, and works with traditionally underserved communities to increase access to environmental education, as well as reduces energy use and carbon emissions and promotes green transportation.


So staff recommends the city adopt the resolution for Bird City USA. Is there a motion to adopt?


So moved. Second. The motion made by Alderman Seller, seconded by Alderman Shadle, discussion? Alderman Stacy?


Yes. So, um, I'm hearing like you're not supposed to, because of the wildlife, like release and something or someone? Manager Boyer? I believe 12 balloons is okay. As a matter of fact we had some concern expressed at one of the events that we're planning about a balloon release and that there is some something about the numbers so as long as the numbers stay within a certain range I believe it's they don't like it per se but they're not against it but they don't like to see those massive balloon releases so. But yeah this that's not to do with this or with if there's no other discussion and the clerk please take the roll.


Stacy? Aye. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? No. Monroe? No. Simmons? Aye. And Parker? Aye. The resolution is adopted seven to one. Item number 19 is the adoption of resolution 2024-121.


Resolution ratifying emergency backflow preventer repairs to city's wastewater treatment plant dewatering system by Nelson Carlson Mechanical Contractors.


Thank you, Your Honor. Earlier this year, the staff of the wastewater treatment plant pointed to a problem with the backflow preventer. It was a time-critical issue and needed to be replaced, so we moved forward with the repair, and staff is asking council to ratify the payment of $11,309 for the emergency replacement of the sewer, the check valve.


Is there a motion to adopt? So moved. Second. Motion made by Alderman Klemm, seconded by Alderman Shadle. Discussion, Alderman Sanders.


Yes, Manager Boyer, with this backflow, Preventer, does that have anything to do with the river, the Pecatonic River backflowing, Foo and into the plan itself within the plan itself so Where these areas that you you're talking about fires repairs to back blow Anything to do along with the river back flows that within the city itself As I understand it's in the plant it's where you have the freshwater line going to an operation inside the plant and and the backflow preventer fails and if it does then it has a potential cross-condemnation.


Okay, I see where you're at, okay. Alderman Monroe. Thank you, Madam Mayor. When was the work done?


This repair was done in June. Why did we wait five months, six months to come back to council?


Darren? We just got the invoice. We spent the money in June. The parts had to be ordered.


It was custom made, so it took some time to get, but we just received the invoice last week from Nelson.


Let's see if somebody else has a question first. If not, Alderman Monroe. Thank you, Madam Mayor.


You know, I get that it takes time to get the parts in, but waiting six months to come Smith, and I'm going to move forward with the spending of that money. You had a purchase order in June. We moved forward with the spending of that money. It was never appropriated for use. I guess my question is why did we wait six months?


Go ahead. The money for this comes out of the sewer repair fees, right, that we typically have budgeted for and the reason because it was an emergency and we usually don't present these until we get the invoice for it.


The sludge presses that we operate five days a week down at the plant cannot run without this backflow device in parallel with them because it protects the contamination of the water like Rob said.


So it became emergent at the time that we needed to order it. Nelson Carlson is a custom fabricator.


So they got the parts in, custom fabricated it and installed it. and I can't explain that Nelson's billing cycles, but yes, this is way behind a typical bill, but we definitely needed it.


Like I said, the sludge presses that press all of our digested sewer will not work without this backflow preventer, which would put us in a significant bind.


Alderman Stacey. When did the parts come in and when was the work completed? From my best recollection, the parts were ordered on the PO in June.


I think they took four weeks to get the parts in because we had to get custom flanges built and added to this large RPZ.


And we went with stainless because the original one wasn't stainless, and it needs to be corrosion resistance because the sludge process of patty caking the sludge is very acidic.


And the environment that this room contains is very acidic. And we've had to replace just about every component within this building over the course of the last 15 years due to the acidic environment.


So I want to say the parts came in and probably mid-July, it was probably installed about the 1st of August and we just got the bill last week.


And you said normally it comes out of what account? There's an account in the sewer budget for repairs at the wastewater treatment plant.


So did this come out the sewer budget account? Yes, the maintenance. there's no further discussion Alderman Monroe actually I do have a question so this chrome in that acidic environment I remember studying this back in my days as a meteorologist atmospheric scientist is there any concern that chromic acid will Stacey, Stacy, Don, Shadle, Sanders, Sellers, Klemm, Monroe, Simmons and Parker. The resolution is adopted 8 to 0. Item number 20 is the adoption of resolution 2024 122. Could you please read this? Resolution ratifying emergency HVAC repairs at City Hall by Lesher Heating and Air Conditioning. Manager Boyer. Council, we had a similar situation here at City Hall. The main council chambers Air Conditioning Units failed I believe toward the end of September to get us through the


rest of the summer. We approved an emergency repair of the Air Conditioning Units, the total cost being $10,425 and staff asks council to ratify that invoice.


Is there a motion to adopt? So moved. Second. Motion made by Alderman Klemm, seconded by Alderman Shadle, discussion?


You said it was how much? I'm sorry. 10,425 dollars. And this money has come or will come from?


It'll come from building maintenance for City Hall PD. to combine those under one budget item, so.


Yes, Alderman Monroe. Are we over budget, under budget in that line item from last year's budget, approved budget?


Do you know that answer? Item 101-142-6165, Contracted Equipment Repair and Maintenance, still has 7,000 left in that line item, before this bill is run.


So we will be shy in that line. Follow-up? Go ahead. So you're saying there will be like $3,000? Sure. Okay. Correct.


Alderman Monroe. Thank you, Madam Mayor. So basically what you're saying, it doesn't matter what we approve in a budget, we're just gonna spend the money and then ask for forgiveness later. Is that how this works? Manager Boyer? As you know, budget is a planning document and you have to make adjustments as you go along upon the reality that happens so when this thing failed I believe it failed within a week of a large council meeting so we had the repair done so that we could not be sitting in 85-degree weather with 100% humidity in here good excuse. Madam Clerk, please take the roll. Stacy.


Aye. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? No. Simmons? Aye. And Parker? Aye. The resolution is adopted 7 to 1. Item number 21 is the adoption of resolution 2024 123. Could you please read this? Resolution approving agreement with Richard L. Johnson for architectural services at wall number 12. Manager Boyer. Thank you your honor.


the City of Freeport is currently in design process of well number 12 that would be the last remaining well for us to get off of the old brick street plant and get us a contaminant free water system the facility design requires an architect for the building component system Richard L Johnson has been a strategic partner on design on the design team of well number 12 and also with our wastewater treatment plan upgrades the City of Freeport they are We're familiar with the state and the city building codes and standards.


The City of Freeport, with the assistance of Fehr Graham, has received a commitment from the Illinois EPA and Congressman Eric Swarmson to fund $13.3 million of originally estimated $14 million of the project.


The project must be bid before March 1st, 2024 to receive the funding. Richard L. Johnson has presented a building architecture contract for $195,000 to perform from the Plan Specifications and Plan Coordination with our Lead Engineer for the overall project design.


To ensure funding, they have committed to being complete and bid ready by the Illinois EPA's bid deadline.


The City plans to fund this engineering through capital improvement funds until a time which we are reimbursed from the Illinois EPA.


The architect's fees can be reimbursed when the loan project is funded through the EPA.


So staff recommends the City Council approve the $195,000 contract with Richard L. Johnson so the project can move forward.


Is there such a motion? So moved. Second. A motion made by Alderman Sellers, seconded by Alderman Shadle.


Discussion. Alderman Shadle. Manager Boyer, you said that they were, Richard Johnson was involved with Well 12, I believe you meant Well 11, they drew that building.


Yes, well, Levin and the Wastewater Treatment Plant, new upgrades. Thank you. Madam Clerk, please take the roll. Stacy? Aye. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? No. Simmons?


Oh, I am so sorry. Parker? Aye. The resolution is adopted six to one. Hey, item number 22 is the adoption of resolution 2024-124. Could you please read this? Resolution approving agreement with Berner-Schober for Mechanical Engineering Services at well number 12. Manager Boyer? Thank you, Your Honor. The City Freeport, as mentioned before, is in the design process for well number 12. The design requires mechanical engineering for HVAC, electrical, supervisory control and data acquisition systems, and fire protection and advanced systems. Berner-Schober has been an engineer partner on the design team for well number 11 and wastewater treatment plant upgrades, and they're familiar with the city codes along with the EPA process standards.


The City has received a commitment from the Illinois EPA and Eric Sorensen, as mentioned before, for $13.3 million and the project must be bid let by March 1st.


Berner Schober has presented a mechanical engineering contract for $70,000 to perform mechanical systems design, specification, and plan coordination with our lead engineer, that's Fehr Graham, as part of the overall project.


So to ensure the funding, they have committed to being complete and bid ready by March 1st, the E.P.A. Deadline and staff recommendation that City Council move forward with the $70,000 contract with Berner-Schover so the project can move forward immediately.


Is there a motion to adopt? So moved. Second. A motion made by Alderman Shadle, seconded by Alderman Sellers.


Discussion. Alderman. Yes, I heard Richard L. Johnson and I heard Fehr Graham. I'm sorry, Bernie, Berners, whoever, Berners, and Fehr Graham.


So who is? Manager Boyer? So Fehr Graham is the lead engineer. Richard L. Johnson is the architect.


And Berners Schober is the mechanicals. So they will help with design of all the piping, electrical work, that type of thing.


So you've got the building itself, and then you've got all the mechanicals inside. Okay, so the building itself is costing the $70,000?


No, that's incorrect. The design for the mechanicals within the building is $70,000. Attorney Zito?


Right, so this is like, you know, so you got the architect who's gonna design the building, right?


There's a separate company or consultant Fowler. There's a company that then designs all the heating and air conditioning, all the pipes and ducts and vents, electrical, you know, wiring that goes in there.


There's a separate company that designs that, different than the architect. And then Fehr Graham is what?


They're the engineer on the project. So you have multiple consultants. So we're going to have three different bills.


Yes. Correct. Right. Because they're all different disciplines. Do you know what those other bills are?


Oh, from the, like from the dollar amounts? Yeah. So for the design of the HVAC, the mechanicals, that's the $70,000 to draw it up, then $195,000 was for the architect, the previous resolution you guys adopted, and then I'll defer to Darren as to what the engineering contract is.


our contract was approved I believe sometime in 23 and I think ours was 1.1 million for all the piping all the ancillaries all the coordination it's a very big project when you're talking about 14 million dollars worth of work and you said in 2023 it was approved yeah that was when we originally started Chasen, Money for Well 12 and Wellhouse 12, mm-hmm Alderman Monroe Kudos to you, Miss Stacy, because you're the first person that's asked the right question. Basically, if you do a search of Fehr Graham, Richard L. Johnson, and Bernard Schober. They work on dozens if not hundreds of projects together. So basically they're one and the same. Even though they're separate companies, they bid together on multiple jobs. So the money's going essentially into the same space. And the question we should be asking is why are we not going out to bid for other entities as well who could also and others.


We're not getting deep bids, we're not getting a lot of offers. So we are putting ourselves in a situation that we're no longer getting multiple entities coming into us with bids.


So the price goes up because they're bidding against themselves. And these are questions we should ask about all of these bids that come through.


and John. There's more than one company that does architectural services. There's plenty of mechanical engineering services. And I know that being comfortable with each of these businesses is great. It's good for the City of Freeport to be able to work with those that know our business, but that doesn't mean we get the best dollar for our buck. We don't get the best, you know, who knows? Who knows what we would get if we had other people bidding and others.


So I think it's important to ask the question because on these adoptions of these resolutions I've not seen where it's gone out to bid.


And so I'm concerned about that and that's why I voted no on the previous one.


And this one is the same thing. And it doesn't matter if you go to Green Bay or Polo, Illinois or Aurora or Madison or where you go, they're all working together.


They're all getting paid the same. So that's the question I would pose to the City Manager, why are we not putting this out to bid?


Manager Boyer? I would say best practices is not a bid. It's statement of qualification.


What's your payment? Darren, did you own it? Well, Aaron can and should weigh in on this, but engineering proposals are not done by bid basis.


That's not legal in Illinois. It's done by qualifications basis. You can't select an engineer off a bid, you can't even ask for a bid price on a project.


That I believe is state statute, if I'm correct. That's right. So for engineers, if you're gonna look for a competitive process, it's called a QBS qualification based system for engineers.


That's just for engineers there. I believe then though, for professional services like engineers, architects, lawyers and stuff like that though, there's also provision of the code that says that you don't have to go out to any sort of a competitive bid or QBS process necessarily if you don't want to.


It's again, it's your guys' choice there if you have a some sort of an established and so forth.


And so, you know, it's not necessarily some sort of an established relationship or desire because you've used them before, so you like what they've done before you in the past and stuff like that.


So, you can, you don't always have to go out to the, a quote or bid process for professional services.


But again, it's up to you. If you want to, you can. Alderman Klemm? Yes.


Contrary, Mr. Monroe, to what you said, being in the construction trade since 1967 and being and estimating since 1984, you'll realize that there are different phases to stuff and different engineers and so forth that are better qualified to do things, okay?


Like you said, they went out in 23 to start working on the money to get this, okay?


There's part of it, okay? You're turning around here and you're having two people work for you that have done absolutely excellent on your last two projects with no problems with the design of the building or anything else in the construction and how it works.


You certainly, you know, like Mr. Zito said, you know, you can go out and do that.


Professional services you don't need to do it on, and I'm not saying you shouldn't do it on.


I'm going to tell you what, when you've got a couple buildings, and you've got 33, 34 million dollars that Fehr Graham has brought into us in grants, and I was at a meeting this morning, where they're going out for another million dollars for lining of sewers and stuff, and can you tell me one project they've done for us lately that's bad? Can you tell me who else you'd go to for another project? Actually, I can. Get your hand off of me first of all.


I'm sorry, I'm sorry I touch you. You have tonight knocked every department in this city. You finally did the Public Works Department tonight. Two weeks ago or three weeks ago you did the Fire Department.


We can go back on. Last week you did the Police Department. Okay, okay. Why the hell if you aren't going to run again? Why don't you just goddamn resign?


Okay, this is off topic. This is off topic. So you're going to let this happen?


No. You just did. and John. I want them removed. A, he touched me. B, he swore at me. And C, I don't have to put up with that.


So what I brought up, and now that he's already put this out there, I'm going to respond. I can get my neighbors on the phone and I can ask them the questions that I brought up tonight.


and John. I want to talk about the past. I've been on this earth and we've put more roads in than you did in your entire tour as a previous Alderman.


If you want to have a conversation, let's have that conversation. My point is this.


This is about finance. This is about money. This is about we keep spending money nonstop and we keep and Mr.


Boyer. I would like to make everyone aware that this is funded with $13.5 million in grant funding that has to be used up in a very short period of time for the benefit of the city of Freeport and its residents.


But that doesn't mean we don't spend it in a manner that's consistent with being fiscally responsible.


And that should not mean that we as council people do not have a choice or option of sending this out for bid.


That was not even given to us. That option was not given to us. you made the decision on your own because they did well 11 to do well 12, when we should have had that option, am I correct in saying that?


We did not have an option, we should not have? Manager Boyer. Alderwoman Stacy, we don't change horses in the middle of a race.


No, that's not the question. I am sorry, I have to tell you, we have had nothing but excellent outcomes.


We have had nothing but willingness to correct deficiencies. We've had responsive service. We have had everything working in our favor and that is why Well 11 went so smoothly once we got the well drilled and that is why Well 12 will be similarly smooth.


and we as a council been given the option to send this job out to be it.


It's about qualification. But that is a yes or no. No you don't. It's not.


Not according to what we have. It's about qualification. How do we know that they're legit engineers?


How do we know that? It's the third time we've done large projects with them.


They're very skilled in what they've done. No, I'm not avoiding your question. You don't go out to bid for engineers. You go out for RFQs, which is qualifications.


That's exactly what he told you, is qualifications. It said that we had the option to go out for bid. We had a choice.


Not for bid, for qualifications. I think what we're describing right now is just terminology, okay? As a baseline concept, engineers, you don't use the word bid, okay? That's a very technical thing, but I think for practical purposes, it's a bid, but it's really called qualification-based system, QBS, for engineers, okay?


So, yes, it is a competitive process, but is it technically called a bid? No, it's not, okay? So I don't want to get people hung up. Right, I don't want people to get hung up on that.


but with the QBS process, the main distinction is, when you go through the process and you entertain all these different engineers, right, they can't tell you a dollar amount, okay, because it's not based on price, it's based on who's the most qualified to do the job, you pick the person first based off of who's the most qualified, after you pick them, then you negotiate the price, so that's what's different between what's traditionally thought of as a bid versus QBS, qualification, it just isn't a name, it's based on qualification, Fowler.


So again, that's a distinction there between the two processes. That said, I think you were saying what I said, right, engineers go through QBS.


You have the right to go through a QBS if you want to as a council.


You guys have that call. Staff has presented a name for you guys instead, because you don't have to use the QBS process also if you don't want to.


So ultimately, it's your guys' call. If you want to go back and say, hey, thanks for presenting a name, a recommendation, but We as a council decide we want to go through the QBS process, you guys can do that.


Darren, did you want to add to that? Yes, just a couple of facts. So this is the third project that we've done with RLJ and Berners for Freeport.


Well House 11 went very well. We didn't have in a percentage basis, we barely had any change orders on the job for the end of the project.


So that means the quality engineering was done otherwise your change orders generally go up and also both companies held their price from 2019 for this job which is unheard of since there's that many years of labor increases and so on and so forth so that's something that we did negotiate with them based on the familiarity with Freeport so the fact is they are saving Freeport money because they're familiar with Freeport, they're familiar with our process, We're familiar with Public Works, they're familiar with our water quality and what we want to see out of our facilities, so there is a savings to this and I will guarantee you that if you decide to do something different you will pay more than this amount for that engineering because you pay for familiarity with your city and or business. That's just the way it is and you're under a time crunch. We're always under a time crunch.


and the city's sole responsibility. Correct. That move. Alderman Sanders, did you have something to add?


I had a lot to say, but your interruption and his interruptions and the fact that I couldn't get my point out to get a clear understanding is almost as if you were avoiding me from the I point out to get a clear understanding.


It's almost as if you're avoiding me from talking. I had a legitimate question to ask, but you got my anxiety moving right about now.


And the fact that you're making statements that only engineers, engineers are not just the sole person that is brought into the project.


Engineers are something of a secondary or sub person or company that comes in to engineer a project.


My whole thing is, who would be the general contractor for such a project? and then you can implement.


and John, and then you can implement whoever you want to decide to bring in to engineer, to do the architect, all of those things. But who is the contractor that is going to oversee this particular project that will allow the Council to see who are they? Because under Say, because under the term general contractor comes many, many prospects of picking and to do bidding.


Take the engineer out of the subject. We're not talking engineer first. We're talking contractors, and they are the ones, the general contractors are the ones who determines who they want to work on the project, not anyone else, and that's for all general contractors who wants to do a bidding for whatever project that goes before it.


And if we're not allowed to look at other bidders, then that means that we're looking from one entity that is creating a monopoly within the city ranks itself.


and so we want to scrutinize everything that is being proposed from your position, Manager Boyer's position, anybody else that is making a comment on this, trying to make this thing passive, to pass.


So let's just open this thing up and make some serious clarity about who's in charge.


the engineers not in charge so your statement there was very inaccurate mr. Sanders I'm sorry the contractor would never be in charge of this project because this has to go out to bid to select a contractor that's what I was getting to the bid is not done until the engineering is done no wise you have no project you can't do one okay okay but Darren has floor right now so let him finish talking the way the process works with the EPA money is you have to have have an engineer and a design group that designs the project and then it goes to bid for the low responsible contractor. That is the way these programs work. We don't select the contractor.


The city doesn't select the contractor. The low bid process selects the contractor on the construction, not on the engineering. That's the way the process works in Illinois.


That is the way every municipality has to operate or you don't get the funds. That is you, the way it works, QBS process or your familiarity with engineers and then you design the project, then you go to bid for the low price, the bid, the competitive process is based on the contractor bidding the project to construct it.


Manager Boyer. I just also wanted to comment that the design and engineering falls within a certain range, and the City of D.C.


The overall cost of this project is actually well within that range. Alderman Shadle, did you have your hand up?


I did. The engineering, as Darren stated, and the architecture is all the prints or and others.


The project is bid off of those prints. What we're talking about is a document that's going to be probably in the neighborhood of 70 to 100 pages, 300 pages.


If there's omissions in the engineering, if there's omissions in the drawings, if things are not figured correctly if they're not drawn correctly. You get halfway into the project and Darren made mention of the fact that on Well 11 there was virtually no change orders and those are generated from the mistakes that are made if you hire the wrong engineer and the wrong architect.


Any of you that have not spoken yet, then we'll move on. Alderman Sanders, you can have your second.


Yeah, thank you for that, Shadle, thank you for that explanation. But yet still, after you get said and done, and done all of the designing and the engineering, you still have to have a contractor to do that job, am I correct?


Is that correct? I'm asking a question. I don't want you to be saying that's it.


Ask your question. I'm asking. Don't push it. I'm just trying to ask my question. Is that correct?


Once it's complete, you go out to a formal bid process for the contractor selection.


And it's not about who's most qualified, because all contractors who are going to bid on this job Will want to have their most qualified engineers on this project, am I correct?


That's not always true on the contractors, and that's why there is an evaluation process for the lowest responsive bidder that's qualified to do the work for construction.


That's part of the evaluation process of the full design package, what it's called. Sorry, who's doing the evaluation?


The evaluation is usually done by the city and the engineer after the bid process is done and we actually formally get bids.


I don't understand the question. It's not an engineer, Larry, it's a contractor. Now we back at the General Contractor and these people have to be qualified even with the low bid contractor.


So within the bid package is usually an enormous package, probably more than the 400 pages that he referenced tonight.


Everybody has to give qualifications, they have to give references, they have to give bondability, depending on how big the job is.


and the job is there is a huge packet that goes through that. We evaluate them after the bid contractor. So if you get three bids, you evaluate three packages. If you get two, you evaluate two. If you get ten, you evaluate ten. Then there's also things called bond inquiries where you can go against or go to firms and ask questions about contractors, whether they've had claims against them, whether they've done bad work for somebody else. That's and others.


So, it's all through the bidding process, which is an enormous process, and then we go through all of that in the background after it's bid, and then make a recommendation to council.


Now, in order not to select the low bid during the process of a contractor, you have to have a reason.


So, they have had to have done some bad work somewhere, something recorded, it's a process, a legal process, and if you don't do it correctly, that process, that contractor could come back and sue the city.


So there is quite a process in evaluating whether someone is qualified or not. Okay, so let's rein this in a little bit. You've had way more than two times to ask questions, and there are also Aldermen that haven't asked any.


Okay, I respect that. Those that have not asked any questions, are you wanting to say anything in this moment?


Because the two that are left, they've already spoken twice. If there's not an objection, I'll let it continue. If there is, then according to our ordinance, this is, this conversation is ended. Yeah, I respect that.


Are you allowed me to continue? I'm asking the council if, according to the and speaking up now if you don't if you want to end the conversation move on to a vote second move on okay well according to the ordinance it needs to be unanimous so the the conversation for the alderman that wanted to do extra discussion is was not approved according to the ordinance yeah this is how we do business according to the ordinance yeah I understand madam clerk since unless there's a member of the council that has not spoken you still have an opportunity Dixon.


Okay. Then, Madam Clerk, please take the roll. So you killed it. Stacy? No. Shadle?


Aye. Sanders? No. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? Nope. Simmons? Ah! Parker, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 is enough to pass. The resolution is adopted 5 to 3.


Move on to item number 23, which is the adoption of resolution 2024-126. Could you please read this? Resolution approving a final plat of subdivision for plat number 2 of SHOPCO subdivision of the City of Freeport.


Thank you, Madam Mayor. So this is currently at the True Storage Building, or I'm sorry, it's a CubeSmart. It's old ShopCo. If you're looking for a reference, it's at the intersection of Rosentiel and South Street. So can I give you an idea of where we're at here? And Director Sutman, if you wouldn't mind scrolling down, I can kind of give them, show them A photo of this subdivision here. So what's happening is the CubeSmart, which sits right here, okay. They, what they currently own is this parcel. They own two outlots, a lot one and a lot two here.


here, and at the moment when this was originally designed and platted, which basically means it went through the process of a subdivision plat where they divided it into three lots.


These lots here were intended for future development. We obviously know the end of the story here is that these were never developed.


There was not enough interest to develop these into some sort of McDonald's, etc., some store.


So what happened is when CubeSmart took over they wanted to and their plan is to extend and build outdoor storage in this area.


Well step one of the process is they need this plat because they need to vacate easements to lots that they no longer intend to have.


So essentially here you have a new plan of business, a new plan for development.


They no longer see a desire to develop these lots. Therefore, they no longer need this access easement to these two lots.


They're going to combine it into one large lot. So in line with the ordinance, which has been also distributed in your agenda packet, this goes before the Planning Commission to have a preliminary plat review and a final plat review.


And the preliminary plat was recommended for approval on November 14th. and it was by a vote of 6 yeas, 0 nays, and 1 abstention and the final plat was recommended for approval by a vote of 6 yeas, 0 nays, and 1 abstention.


And staff recommends approval of this resolution. Is there a motion to adopt? So moved.


Make a second. Moving motion made by Alderman Sellers, seconded by Alderman Shadle. Discussion on the resolution?


Alderman Sellers? I just have a quick question. I would just like, is that the parking lot then? You know, because they have a very big parking lot.


It's, yes, so this would be the front. This is kind of where you would pull into the cube, this rosentile.


You'd pull in here, and this is actually the front of the store, the front of CubeSmart.


And what, like, you know, you were saying, that's a big parking lot. now, they, if things would have gone according to plan they would have had two tenant spaces towards South Street, things didn't go according to plan, they're pivoting and now they're saying ok we're going to put outdoor storage in that parking lot area.


Alderman Stacy. So you're speaking behind what was Shapko? No. No. That's South Street right off of it.


Here would be South Street. You know that they have a large parking lot in the front here. I'm saying the front. It's the north side of the parcel.


South Street's up here. It's down the hill. You're looking down the hill. Downing, across the street from Dairy Queen, and the electric horse, yeah, it's from that, yeah, it's There's no further discussion Madam Clerk, please take the roll. Stacey?


Aye. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? No. Monroe? No. And Simmons? Aye. And Parker? Aye.


the resolution is adopted six to two item number 24 is approval of a bid could you please read this a bid opening was held on November 7th 2024 for CD 009 2024 for rehabilitation of single home at 748 East Center Street thank you director doctor thank you madam mayor so the city of Freeport has been awarded the Community Development Block Grants of which a total of $550,000 of which $64,000 is allocated to Grant Administration and $486,000 goes to the rehabilitation of homes.


City of Freeport held a bid opening on November 7th of 2024 for the construction of rehabilitation services of 748 East Center Street.


received one bid in the amount of $54,775 by CMM and Associates. The scope of work that has been agreed upon by the City of Freeport and the property owner includes the following construction rehabilitation services.


This is a new roof, new bathroom fixtures, new bathroom floor, and siding repairs. Staff recommends issuing a contract to CMM and Associates in the amount of $54,775 for Construction, Rehabilitation Services at 748 East Center Street.


Is there a motion to approve this bid? So moved. Second. The motion made by Alderman Seller, seconded by Alderman Shadle.


Discussion? Alderman Monroe? Thank you, Madam Mayor. What's the square footage on the property? I don't have that information right in front of me.


I can't get... The only reason I ask is, you know, for the cost, you know, kind of estimating the cost of roof.


I'm not sure how much they're putting in in siding repairs. Is that a significant amount?


I have that in the packet. I can get that to you. But it's a significant amount of work.


And I think one of the biggest issues and concerns here is early on when we had some of the contractors come in to look at it, a lot of them end up walking away because you have to be a license led contractor in order to qualify for this grant.


So you have to do an additional license. And early on, we had several contractors interested, and they all walked away from some of the higher requirements.


So I do think that some of the restrictions from the state make it a little more restrictive on what we're getting.


And then also I think that that's just in particular, but it is a whole new tear off of the roof.


I know it's an entire tear off and a full new roof installation. Any other discussion?


Alderman Stacey. This is part of the Community Development Block Grant? Correct. That housing rehabilitation grant for the $550,000, yes.


The homes on Adams and along Adams Avenue corridor. Any further discussion? One more question.


Is the home privately owned or is it owned by? Every home that's in this grant goes through a highly restrictive, high vetting process and they have to be owner occupied. So they have to be owner occupied. So there were some concerns about landlord owned properties. A couple things I want to state there. They have to be owner occupied and the grant is need based. So there's a scoring system that they have that the state provides and certain more points are given to the elderly and more points are given to people with disabilities. So if somebody is owner occupied, disabled and elderly, their house may look nicer than the one next to them, but the scoring that's based on the state has to follow those guidelines. So it's not necessarily that's a bad house that you get the money. It's not, that's not how it's scored.


Okay. Thank you. Sanders. Yeah, I think I may have asked this question once before, I'm not sure, but I ask again, what makes you what makes you eligible? Again, I know I know you, but what actually makes you eligible? So at the time in 2021, I was not here for this application when these were originally submitted. But at the time, it had to do with the geographic region, which is a census block tract, which is a fancy way of saying that our federal government divides our of our many maps that overlap each other there's census block tracks that they do statistics on for our communities and and when this grant application was done you had to live within the census block tract i say the adams avenue corridor because it's easier than saying census block track number 75 just people don't think like that so you had to live within the census block tract which was and it has a certain sense of call statement of qualifications for Income and Elderly.


and others. The application was originally submitted to the region 1 planning council. So you had to be in that geographic area and then you had to submit an application.


This is an ongoing project. Not right now. The application's deadline was done. Region 1 planning council was hired to grade all of the applications based on the factors that I stated.


So Region 1 was retained as a Planning Council on the suggestion of the state.


They reviewed and scored all of these applications. So this is not open right now.


Okay. All right. Thank you. Stacy, did you have a second one? Yes. know that they truly qualify and that there's no hidden agendas, not that you're hiding but that they're hiding.


How do we know that financially they are able to even receive this money? Well I do know for the one, I do know that I have obviously been asked to, and it's on later on so I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about it, but I was asked about one property in particular, and I do know that income verification is done at several points along the way. So, the state has contemplated this being an issue. Do I think somebody could lie? People lie about everything. So, do I think if somebody was committed to doing it and could lie and possibly sure it's done everywhere. But my point is the state has contemplated that this being an issue. So, for example, on income verification, I have seen social security statements that the people are willing to share with the city and I've I've seen income tax returns.


So people are trying, and what I'm seeing, people are trying to be honest, they're showing their information, which is not easy for a lot of people to share, and they're showing they're being honest on their, from what I'm seeing, they're being honest on their applications.


Anyone else? Is it acceptable for a third round for Alderman Stacy? I thought I only spoke once.


Well, I thought I had written down, but go ahead. I might have made a mistake.


Okay. Item 24 and Item 25 is a factor of my Item 31. and I would like to make a motion that they are put on the December cowl for further discussion.


Right now, you want to take 24, 25, and 31? 31? I cannot get to it until we get through everything else, but 31 is a part of 24 and 25.


So am I hearing you correctly? You want to move 24, 25, and 31 onto December COW?


I want to move 24 and 25 to the COW. Is there a second to that motion?


I second it. Okay, so the topic now is moving these items to the December COW for more discussion.


Is there discussion on that particular part? Madam Clerk, could you? Oh, just could I ask the question, will it hinder the time where the contractor is going to do the work. Yes. Because the money is already there and already approved and already... Yes, at the basic level it's putting a roof on a house. So if you're put if you delay putting a roof on a house you go to December. I can't read the tea leaves on the weather. Alderperson Monroe could do a better job at that, but I can tell you that it's not good that when you want to put a roof on a house you get colder in a year it doesn't you can't there becomes a point when it starts getting cold enough you can no longer put roofs on houses so So this would essentially put this back another until spring. At least, probably April. Okay, so if there's no further discussion on that particular motion, Madam Clerk, would you please take the roll to see if it's acceptable for 24 and 25 to move to the December call?


Stacy? Aye. Shadle? No. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? No. Klemm? No. Monroe? No. Simmons? Aye. And Parker? No.


the motion fails three three to five okay so we're back to the approval of this bid on 748 East Center Street is there any more discussion on 748 East Center I'd like to make a motion Madam Mayor I would like to make a motion to suspend the rules well actually we don't need to we can oh that's right it's enough Madam Clerk, please take the roll.


Stacy? No. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? No. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? Aye. Simmons? Aye. And Parker?


Aye. The motion passes 6-2. And item number 25, could you please read this bid approval?


There was a bid opening on November 7th, 2024 for CD0102024 for rehabilitation of a single home at 833 South Adams Street.


Director Duckman. Thank you Madam Mayor. So at 833 South Adams, this property is also part of the Community Development Block Grant for Housing Rehabilitation and the City of Freeport held a bid opening on November 7th, 24 for the construction rehabilitation services of 833 South Adams and received one bid in the amount of $39,075 by CMM and Associates and this scope of work has been agreed upon by the City of Freeport and the property owner and it includes the following construction rehabilitation services, 8 new windows, softened fascia repairs, upgraded electric, deck repair, New, Gutters, and staff recommends moving forward by issuing a contract to CMM and Associates in the amount of $39,075 for the construction rehabilitation services of 833 South Adams Avenue.


Is there a motion to approve this bid? So moved. Second. We have a motion made by Alderman Parker, seconded by Alderman Shadle.


Discussion on this bid. Alderman Sanders. Who evaluated this home with the list of items that needs to be improved? How do we generate that cost and where are we shopping for material things to make sure that the cost is not being driven by a particular one company or whatever? How do we get there?


again very specific so on this particular grant we had a what is called it is a mandatory walkthrough on October 18th mandatory cannot move forward if I do not if city does not host this walkthrough so we have a consultant MSA is our consultant and they're our grant administrator through that consultant was at the house on October 18th we have a sign in for that our building inspector was present and more importantly part of this grant requires what's known it requires a housing inspector that's certified through this grant and that we have that person it's a contracted housing inspector that creates a scope of work that hands out the scope of work at that particular meeting so they're saying here's what has been decided upon that need that what you're bidding on so that's a requirement of this of this grant so that's the evaluation process If there's no further discussion, Madam Clerk, please take the roll.


Stacy? No. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? Aye. Simmons? Aye. And Parker?


Aye. The motion passes 7-1. This bid opening was held on November 14th, 2024, CD012-24, demolition of nine residential properties.


Director Duckman. Thank you, Madam Mayor. So, the City of Freeport held a bid opening for the demolition of nine properties.


It was held on November 14th at 9 o'clock in the morning, and the City of Freeport received bids from four contractors.


An analysis was provided in the memorandum to our council, and after reviewing the bids, it was, you know, the city elected to go with the lowest bid per actual individual property, and it's Per Actual Individual Property, and it's shown in that analysis.


And based on that, staff is recommending that Klechner excavating be granted $21,145 for the demolition of 622 East Winnipeg and 626 East Winnipeg.


Fisher excavating be awarded $91,495 for the demolition of 217 North Henderson, 425 South Float, 441 South Benton, 634 North Warren, 706 East Winnipeg, 712 South Pine, and 1208 South Rotsler Avenue.


All the funding from this grant is going to come from the IDA Strong Communities Program grant, which is commonly known as the grant for $300,000.


Is there a motion to approve? So moved. Second. Is there a motion made by Alderman Seller, seconded by Alderman Shadle?


Discussion on the bid? Alderman Simmons. Alderman Simmons. Director Duckman, why isn't the house across the street from 626 on Winnipeg? That's all boarded up. Why isn't that on this list, but the two across the street from that that that I mean that they're both in bad condition, but the one that's been boarded up. Why is that not on this list?


The short answer to that, just going off memory, and I actually drove down, I posted the signs on Winnishek for these because my inspector was out that day and I went down and asked him the same question and he reminded me that it was a particular owner that fought tooth and nail with the city against any action we had.


So sometimes these take longer because as we move through this process they can file a complaint but I will I'm being honest with you and I tell you I told my inspector I want that one moving forward because I said I don't want to keep going through knocking the ones down around it without missing that particular house but that's that's the answer why is that the some property owners even though when the writing is on the wall they fight the demolition of their properties Alderman Sanders Yeah, how many properties are we talking about?


Nine properties, nine properties on this PIDL on this grant, on this award. And we all, we all, we do have a demolition contractor to do the job.


Correct, so what you're voting on, what you would be voting on is two of them are for Kleckner and nine of them are for two of them are for Kleckner, seven of them are for fisher excavating.


Okay Madam Clerk, please take the roll. Stacy? Aye. Shadle? Aye. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? Aye. Klemm? Aye. Monroe? Aye. Simmons? Aye.


And Parker? Aye. The motion passes 8 to 0. Item number 27. Can you please read this discussion ordinance?


Discussion regarding ordinance amending part 6 general offenses chapter 694 weeds and grass of the codified ordinances by adding a new section 694.08 to be entitled Vegetation and Managed Natural Landscape and amending chapter 694.01 nuisance declared for the purpose of allowing planned natural landscaping while prohibiting uncontrolled growth of vegetation.


Manager Boyer. Thank you, Honor. This was up for discussion at the last Committee of the Whole.


The proposed ordinance identifies natural landscape options for homeowners and for property owners. City staff is requesting to move forward with this.


It provides us some flexibility, allowing for pollinators, allowing us to have various plant scapes and at the same time giving us the ability to help regulate those.


So staff is requesting moving this on to the December council meeting for first reading.


So move. Second. We have a motion made by Alderman Sellers, seconded by Alderman Shadle to move this ordinance on for first reading.


Is there discussion on Alderman Sanders? Yeah, how soon are we anticipating on moving on this particular ordinance?


Alderman, Alderman, Alderman, Alderman Clem If I could, I was happy that they brought the pictures tonight of the different places of the different grasses and flowers.


I'll show them next time but I brought a couple slides for Kurt if we needed to look at them.


I think one of the problems is if you remember how beautiful the roundabout was before it was changed to grass, never mowed, never taken care of, never anything done, my concern is you're going to see that in people's yards and I brought a picture of a couple of fences but we don't need and I need to look at it, but I look forward to some discussion either before then or then.


This has been initiated more by Public Works, correct? This is not a hey, you've got long grasses, right, so I just want to make sure we're not . . .


No, no, I understand. Yeah, my department is more than ready to cut some tall grass, so don't worry about it.


No, no, I understand that 100 percent, but I know what we can come up with, so.


Yes, this ordinance did not say anything about native plants. So, I'm asking for clarity. Is this for native plants, like what we were given? Or is this just sprinkle some seeds out and let them grow?


Manager Boyer? We can get that for you. Excuse me? We can get that for you. What does that mean? We can provide that for you with the council packet before the next meeting. This isn't a definition of native species.


I understand, but I asked if this ordinance was talking about native plants. Oh yes, yes. You know, I don't get what's funny. I don't get what's what's tickled about my question.


If there's no further discussion, you had something? So I did get an email after this was referred to this discussion, further discussion here from Randy, who was the one who put this forward here, suggesting that we add a definition of native plantings are a description of what kind of plants are typical native plantings, so I would want to make that change, that next, you'll see that list of what native plantings are.


Thank you, I'm glad I made sense to somebody. Then we will move on to item number 28. Do we need to vote on that, Mayor?


No, we don't need to vote moving forward. Because this just says discussion, I don't want, because it's specifically on the agenda as discussion only.


I don't want to take a vote because we haven't announced, we didn't post for that.


We just meant vote on moving forward to the next meeting. Yeah, I think I'd rather just have it put on the agenda for first reading and then they can vote to move it forward from there.


Did you have something else? The reason Public Works was requesting this change is because we have issues in the right of way where people are putting plantings that are growing up and others that are out beyond visibility standards or we can't push snow back, things like that.


It's really a maintenance cleanup issue. We don't have any mechanism right now to enforce it.


And so we're trying to enforce that the right-of-ways stay cleaned up and mowed well and also allow for these native plantings within landscapes.


So it's really just a cleanup process. Because we're getting into a season where we need to be able we need to be able to control the height of corners and intersections where plantings are to make sure that we have visibility.


Okay, so we'll move on to item 28. Could you please read the next discussion?


Discussion regarding evaluating updates to city ordinances requiring drug testing for elected officials and director level employees in the city.


Alderman Monroe. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think as a city that hires and does drug testing, all new hires, that it's important that we as community leaders set the example and basically provide for an environment that's safe, healthy, well-being of all employees are covered and that drug and alcohol abuse can have significant impacts on decision-making and I'm all for the same purpose of making as well as, you know, understanding of things in the Council and, you know, a lot of cities have this type of an ordinance already in place and I think it's important that we, you know, set the example as leaders.


of you know a city you know we've had instances We've had instances where people have tested positive after an event or an accident of some sort and I think it's important that we start to reel that in.


Drug use in the workplace is never a good thing. It's even more so in a city like ours and I think that by setting the example it will be easier to make changes down the road overall as the city goes for all the departments.


Sanders, you know, and I'm ready to kind of kick it off. I don't know if Alderman Sanders would like to add anything to that. But you know, I think I think it's very, very important that we, you know, at least start in the direction of testing, you know, so that we can protect the citizens and the property of the community at large. Mr. Sanders.


Yeah, with something of that significance to have the citizens of Freeport realize that we're here to serve them, that we want to do it honorably, we don't want to be under some kind of a hit, I can't say it, I got so many ways to put it, but we don't want and I want them to feel that we've been hypnotized within our own council to the point where we can't make decisions affirmatively because of the state of mind that we in us.


I feel very confident when I know that the guy that's working in capacity of the city, he's competent.


and so on. And so I think this is not inundated by drugs, drinking, smoking, whatever the case may be, that we can assure all of our employees have everything going for them to keep a liability from factoring in while on the job performing duties and making decisions.


And so I think this, because of the fact this is the norm, it's not something that any is pulling out of their hat. It is a norm that we get in line putting our employees and staff and elected officials and people of that nature in that same, under that same umbrella. So I think it is something that we should look at. It hasn't been considered all the years that I've been living here in Freeport. It is something we should adopt. It is something that we should move forward with.


Smith, and I think the city should look into it. We should look very closely about it, look into these kinds of things, because we don't know.


And that's the reason why these things happen, these kind of drug tests happen, because we don't know, we don't know you like that, you know, that kind of thing, so until you show up on a test lab or something like that, then we can understand who you are, you know, so.


Doesn't the employee handbook already address that, where they can be drug tested? Yes, Madam Mayor, the policy of the City is that all employees are subject to random error analysis.


So it already is in place. So my question, I suppose, to the two of you would be, if this is pointed at an elected official, I mean, drug test me all day long, I don't care, but what's the outcome?


What's the outcome? What do you want to happen as a result? Because you can't have someone removed from office because they fail a drug test. It doesn't happen. So what are you hoping to have for, what's the goal? Well, my thing is, my thing is, it's not open up for discussion with you, Mayor, at this time. We should, we're just putting it out out there, let the Council think about it, talk about it, bring it to the next reading, because until we understand how we're going to go through the process of doing this particular thing, this kind of mechanism needs to be put in place. Why hasn't it not been put in place is the question. We are not running an honor system that I can detect, which we Cooney, John, Ken, Avery, Hun, D. Avery, you know, all of the other people, the people who are going to be the judge, we are going to be the judge. You know, I can't tell you how many people are going to be the judges, how many of them are going to be the judges, how many of them are going to be judges. The judges are going to be judges.


and others. I was headed with this is, you know, we do have, you know, a general drug policy online in our handbook.


You know, where I was headed with this was as an example, as elected officials and directors that, you know, we would have an annual drug test and that would be my motion is to move forward with an annual test in January for all elected officials and anybody taking a A seat after they've been elected to office, you know, because it is important that we set the example and we are the leaders of each of these departments, this community.


And it's important that we maintain that transparency and allow our public to understand that, you know, we are putting our best foot forward.


We are setting the example within the City of Freeport and, you know, I think the cost and the rest of it is negligible compared to other things that we're doing and you know from that standpoint it would set the example that not only are we willing to do it but that you're eligible for it as well as an employee of the City of Freeport so that would be my motion is that we would have a have it drawn up so that we're automatically tested every January by the end of the month and move forward from there.


you say everybody who are you implying elected you know all of us sitting in this room at these tables director level and above alderman and you know mayor and so forth okay so there's a motion on the floor okay you want to address it your motion just to clarify though your motion was just to is it to basically and I have to say that I need to directly direct staff to look into this and draft an ordinance there because, which is fine, right? There to say, hey, let's keep working in looking into this there. The only reason why I asked for the clarification is because I need to look into this for the legality of it. There, you mentioned that there were other communities. If you could share those with me just so I can kind of, you know, reach out to them and kind of see, They've done their, I'm unaware, again, not that I'm the end all be all there.


I'm unaware of other communities requiring elected officials to be drug tested. I know that there was a, many years ago there was the General Assembly.


There was a bill proposed to require House representatives and Senate members to be drug tested as a part of being able to file nomination papers.


that bill was shot down. It didn't pass there. My concerns looking with just doing this, and again, I don't have a problem if this is what you guys wanna do.


I just wanna make sure that it's legal to do it. There is that you're changing the qualifications of office basically or potentially.


You're trying to say that, hey, if you fail the drug test, is the repercussion that then you can't serve there.


And I just have to see if that's allowed to be done or if that is something that is left to the General Assembly to be able to write in that additional qualification.


So again, I don't, policy wise, this is up for you guys. I just wanna make sure that you guys are allowed, have the authority to make that policy.


There, and I don't know the answer off the top of my head. Okay, but his motion was to drug test every elected official and director here every January.


That was the motion, so. So I think to Manager Boyer's point, I think the all employees are subject to drug testing. I think you're narrowing, getting a little more specific in saying that, hey, because right now it's kind of random. It's up to to the city decide or the manager decide when when a drug test of department heads might be necessary there. You're saying you're trying to narrow that scope and say, hey, department heads are going to get drug tested along with everybody else.


List, David Lewis, David Perlman, Walgreens, ents, I know the city does. The reason we set the example every meal, every elected official, every January one.


You know, I mean, we, we, as elected leaders and department heads are using our facilities, we're using our vehicles, we're, we're doing things.


And the daily activities of our jobs. And it's important that we, you know, do set the example and that we, you know, it is for the overall health of the city.


and many other legalities of it all but you know I think you know kicking somebody out of office probably isn't but you know there are options to get people help I mean you know the language is in yeah you know the employee handbook it doesn't say you're terminated and so on.


I don't want to say you're terminated upon a positive test, but there are those types of things.


I think from a standpoint, it does make a lot of sense from the handbook's kind of teeth, if you will, that if we're all going to abide by the same rules as they are, I don't know of an Alderperson or an elected official or a department head that's ever been drug tested in my time as an Alderperson.


So, really what you want is an ordinance to reflect it. Alderman Parker. I don't have no problem with the employees when they're out there driving our vehicles, doing the work in a dangerous situation, being drug tested.


But drug testing the alderman is asinine. I've been drug tested twice. Bates, once I went in the military, once I become a cop. Other than that, I never have.


I'm totally against it, and I'm not going to do it. So, thank you. Okay, so we do have a motion on the floor, would be to, I'm guessing you're tasking Attorney DeZito to come up with an ordinance, right?


Yeah, I would like that. Yes, please. Okay, so we have a motion. Is there a second?


A second. So we have a second made by Alderman Sanders. If there's no further discussion, Madam Clerk, Do we take a vote on that?


Yeah, this is just to task me with looking into this more. Yeah, great. So Madam Clerk, did you, yeah.


Yeah, what we're trying to do is set a standard that's supposed to be in place already.


We're not bringing anything in new. I just want to get that out of everybody's mind.


It is something that just has not been activated or been used. according to the mayor, stating that we got something like that in place and if you wanna object to that, that's on you.


But my thing is we're not setting a new standard if it's already in place.


If someone has already been asked, I know that this has happened out in the field of Construction Workers, making accusation of someone that may have been consumed by drugs by one of our elected officials or directors or whoever have made that statement.


So I know that it has been done. Dunn. I don't know if we got it in writing or anything like that, but I think it resulted in someone's termination here at the city. So if that's not correct, then I stand corrected.


But if that conversation happened, then we should look into the fact that this thing should be taken at face value all the way across the board.


Alderman Shadle, did you have something? I just wanted to say that you are in fact wrong again. Okay. The added portion of this would be the elected officials. It doesn't matter. Well, you said you weren't reinventing anything and you know changing anything. No. And in fact you are. Well, if I am, that's your opinion.


We have a first and second motion and a second. We pass the bill to draft an ordinance.


Madam Clerk, would you please take the role on this particular discussion? Stacy? Aye. I'm sorry, I didn't see your hand.


So, okay, is it already part of whatever ordinance you think it is? Employees. Okay, so, okay, and if you're concerned about older people and elected officials, is there is there something in the ordinance that says if, you know, somebody, Alderperson A shows up inebriated, they'll be removed?


No. Oh. That's why I was questioning what, what's your end goal? I don't know.


Director Richter? I'd just like to clarify a little bit, and if I'm wrong, Attorney Zito, the handbook, I believe, is due to reasonable suspicion.


, and I'm not in a random pool. I just wanted to clarify that. » Madam Clerk, will you please take the roll?


» Stacy? » Aye. » Shadle? » No. » Sanders? » Aye. » Sellers? » No.


We move on to item number 29, could you please read this discussion? Discussion regarding investigation into unauthorized disposal of city documents in the Freeport City Cemetery and purpose of that disposal.


Alderman Monroe. Thank you, Madam Mayor. It's come to my attention as an Alderperson for multiple people now that there was at at some point in time in the 2010 to 2020 range at least that there were holes dug in the city's sedimentary and documents were dumped into those holes.


And we're not talking small amounts of documents, we're talking very large amounts of documents.


My question is knowing how documents are typically disposed was, you know, documents are typically disposed of, you know, from being in classified environments, as well as other environments in the military, and since being in the military, that, you know, appropriate behavior would be to shred those documents, dispose of them, burn them, whatever it may be.


It's not to dig a hole in the city cemetery and dump a bunch of documents in, and then call it good.


The people that have approached me with this information, I believe, and I believe it's important that we at least look into if information was dumped and if that information was dumped, was it done so as a standard practice or if it was done so to cover something up or if, you know, information that somebody has out there could be gathered from those documents. Not knowing the details behind it, I felt it was important enough to come to the city and at least have the conversation so that the public is understanding of what was, you know, put there. And I think it's, it's, it makes sense to at least take a look. We don't need to necessarily go digging in the cemetery. There's ways to use ground penetrating radar and other methods that are easily done without disturbing any of the and so on. I think it's at least worth a conversation to figure out why it was put there. If the you know the city would like to maybe share with the older people, you know what what the what the reasoning behind it was.


Um, I felt like it was important enough to kind of come in front of the council, have the conversation. It shouldn't be too difficult and go from there.


Manager Boyer Thank you, Ms. Alderman. The situation the cemetery, We interviewed the Sexton's for the last 20 years and both of whom said there was never any incident that the of that kind Only Clem Between 10 and 20 that appears to be a good number of years It be do you have any idea what administration it was or who you could go back to do find out and see I?


Was on all those years. I don't believe I wasn't on from 18 on you were there then but I find that to be entirely ridiculous thank you yeah three of those years are under my seat I have no knowledge of any of it so is there so I understand everybody's reluctance and I understand everybody's position but is it not worth at least looking into would you well I think that's what manager Boyer did yes Yes, we looked into it and we interviewed the sextants that were there at the time and they have both said that there was never anything interred in the cemetery matching the description that you made being some kind of documents.


Who are the sextants? I have no idea who they are. One is Todd Marsh.


He was our sextant for many years and the previous sextant, I don't know him personally, but he was interviewed also.


What did the sextants do? I'm confused. The sextants in charge of the cemetery. from working with the state archivist burial of documents I know is an acceptable disposal method I don't I don't know what you're referring to here but I know burial is acceptable when we had wet records from a flood that the shred people would not take them when they were wet although you're You're not implying that, you're just saying that's, that would be a normal, correct?


that would be a normal correct that's acceptable it's an acceptable method yeah whether this happened or not I I don't know but Alderman Sanders yeah I just wanted to say that we're not in a position to investigate it with the biases that we might be carrying simply because it's in our agenda but you got to Remember, the City of Freeport was like a revolving door with elected salary positions, officials, many different administrations, and things of that nature.


So any of the things that are on this agenda could have occurred, but it's not our position to state our opinion on something that we can't validate as Council, Nor can we say that no one that works for the city has any knowledge about any such things.


But we can't say that and for us to not be scrutinizing the whole proposal that was being made about investigating, looking into these kinds of things.


For whoever might be objecting to it, don't know the full scope of all the details from the time that it was done or whatever, whatever was done.


It has just been brought to our attention. We can't just put a date on it. We just can't do that.


Manager, Where? I would just like to respond to that if you have something you'd like to share with me I'd be happy to act on it Only Clem. Yeah, I just wanted to say why don't you Reveal your sources and we can go talk to them if they know so much. So you can put your hands on them like you did me I'd go to the police department, but they won't do it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Is there any other discussion concerning these?


Yes, ma'am. I'd like to make a motion that we at least look into examining a little further. Once again, very small cost to look and see if we, and I will get a better location so that we have that location, but we will, we'll at least get that together and have the conversation and see if it's worthwhile. I don't know what the cost of ground penetrating radar is, but I've seen it used in the and the other.


I think it's a good thing that we have a lot of people that have been involved in the past and it does work very, very well. If there was something there, it would show up, even if it wasn't a state of decay. I don't know the but it seems pretty odd to me that people would come up and say this for no reason.


that we look into a further okay you know I don't think there's any harm in that you know and at least you know validate or invalidate I don't know what we'll find but I know two people that came forward and said something about it and they don't want to say anything because they you know they don't want anybody to come back on them okay so there's a motion on the floor I find it funny you do we have a second okay so we have a motion made by Alderman Monroe seconded by Alderman Sanders to look further into examining the validation of the allocations I don't know so Mike correct on what I just sure if you'd like I'll come back at a later date with a location and a map and put a red X on it for people. So it's easier to look, you know. We have a motion. So we have a motion. I mean, this is just basically like a consensus. But given the fact that I don't know how a voice vote is going to play out as far as I got a consensus as to whether or not the council wants to look into this further or not look into this further. I just take off. So do we want to look into this further? That's the that's the question. Madam Clerk, Would you please take the roll?


Stacy? Aye. Shadle? No. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? No. Klemm? No. Monroe? Unreal. Aye. Simmons is absent. Parker? No. Four? Wait a second. One, two, three to four. I always state that wrong. I'm sorry. The motion fails. Am I wrong, Mayor? One, two, three, four wrong.


At four nos, one, two, three yeas. She's here. Can she vote? Oh, but we've had I have Klemm, Parker, Shadle, and Sellers as noes, Monroe, Stacy, and Sanders as yes, 7, failing 3 to 4.


Is that? Okay, we'll move on to item number 30, which is another discussion. I think we moved this to the calm, Madam Mayor. I'm sorry, yes, I meant to say 31. 31? Okay, my mistake. Discussion regarding concerns related to the Community Development Block Grant Housing Rehabilitation recipient for 1010 South Adams Avenue Rehabilitation Grant. Alderman Stacey.


Through my research, I was able to find that this particular applicant for the 1010 South Adam, property has a total combined real estate portfolio of $312,690, was, slash, is anyone from this city aware of this?


Yes. If you did and they were still approved, then shame on you. If you didn't know and they were still approved, then shame on you.


I would think a portfolio of that size would deem them over-asset or are assets not a part of the determined factor for approval.


We don't know. I went on the city website to download a copy of the CDBG sample application and a listing of accepted documents, but the information was no longer available.


So to ensure that the CDBG, Adam Avenue Housing Rehabilitation Grant Fund, which are still Winslow.


I make a motion that all taxpayer dollars are being distributed with fairness and equity, as well as to provide a further safeguard against any potential misconduct.


all CDBG Adams Avenue Housing Rehabilitation projects until the council have been completely educated on the application and selection process and all other participants' requirements.


So, this was on for discussion only, right? So you actually have like a motion to basically put like a moratorium on the issuance of any further grants, right, CBGB grants here there.


I think we can put it on an agenda, but four so that you can vote on it there, but because Because we have this just for discussion on here tonight, I don't think we can vote on the motion that you made because you're actually looking to take actual action as far as placing a moratorium on the issuance of any further grants under this program.


Well, I can't help that the word discussion was added. However, when I called in and said I wanted this, I said why I wanted this.


because this 10-10 property, this family have 10 other properties here in Freeport plus they have two properties in German Valley and it is no way that they're eligible for this $48,000 and so I don't know who knows who or what is going on but clearly something is going on.


You've already approved it though, right? You know that. I do want to add some light to that because I can tell you're upset you and I've talked about this. It's not ten properties. I investigated it again today. I went to the tax records and looked at it. The German Valley House, I believe, was sold somewhere around 2006. And it's not ten properties. I went to the tax records and looked at it. The German Valley House I believe was sold somewhere around 2006. And it's not ten properties.


As of 2023, the person we are talking about has paid taxes on a total of 8 properties.


One of them is a vacant lot and another one of them is their actual residence.


All of their, again, I have to be careful about what I say because some of this information is off of their tax returns, but I will say that this has all been accounted for and I and I stand by it, you know, somebody else will come in here and have a different opinion, a different professional opinion, that's fair, I stand by that, somebody else's professional opinion, but I do know when I looked at that tax return, all these properties have been accounted for, the person who's part of this applicant has worked with me greatly and said anything they can do to put somebody's mind at ease, but owning, you're talking about the difference between assets versus how much money they make on their income statement, and their tax returns. You told me that, Director Duckman, you even offered me to come talk to them, but then you never followed up. I asked you Friday, and you were not here, but I asked you for a copy of the pre-walkthrough that happened on October 10th and any photos taken, and that could not even happen. We can do that, absolutely. We can still do that.


I have all that information here, I just have to be extremely careful about what information is given because at some point if this person says, hey, my tax information, my tax ID got out or hey, I didn't want, so I consulted at today's department head meeting, I talked with Attorney Zito and I said, what's our best course of action to put somebody's mind at ease and when I spoke with the applicant today, they said, I'll comply all day, I just to have certain information that I do want redacted.


And so there's two sides that have two fair requests. But as I say, as a professional, I stand behind anything you'll look at on their records.


And they're willing to work with whomever. So I brought it up at the department head meeting to make sure everybody was protected and safe.


And however it is we end up looking at it, I do know Attorney Zito will be present to make sure whatever needs to be redacted is redacted.


and I genuinely look forward to putting your mind at ease or anyone else's, but I do hope that as we move forward, this grant has taken three years to implement and that we don't delay people's projects that are reliant on it, you know, because there's questions on this one particular grant application.


When I spoke with you last Monday, you stated that you had seen the 2020 income tax.


Have you seen the 2023? yes I saw it today I have it today right I have it right here okay yes I have so then I would like to set up a meeting with you and Zito and if the homeowners want to come so be it all I'm saying is right is right and wrong is wrong I agree anybody that owns 8, 10, 12 properties and they qualify for this type Kappa, Grant Money, when we got property on these streets that look worse than theirs.


Let me just stop though quick because that's bad information to put out into the public.


I'm not insulting you at all, but putting out bad information is not good for the public to hear because I did state earlier that if you drive down Adams Avenue and you say why does that house look bad and this person got their house fixed, on the grant application and that the state gives, it has a scoring system of points that we, as the director, I talked to the state and said, I do not want a city employee to be accused of having friends or favorites, cloak and dagger tactics.


I said, how can we avoid that? And it says, you can hire a local planning council, region one planning council, to review objectively on a state identified ranking system all of the applications.


and that is what we did through council that was approved through council so every one of these properties excuse me was the highest the highest weighted factor I'll just read all of them owner occupied for 10 years or longer you get 10 points for that owner occupied for five years or longer you get five points for that if you pay 35 percent or more of your income on your housing that's 10 points if you are elderly 62 or older you automatically Fowler.


So that doesn't matter if your house is falling down in the ground or if it's brand new.


If you're elderly in this grant, you get an extra 20 points. If you're disabled, 20 points.


If you're a single head of household, that's 10 points. If you have a large family, five or more, that's five points.


And now they have listed incomes. This does not have anywhere on here about assets, does not say assets.


it talks about your income and verifying your income and based on the what region you're in these income levels are set by the state it says if you have very low income which is 50 to 30 percent of the area's median income you receive 15 points if you are extremely low income which is less than 30 percent of the area's median income which is determined By the state, and there's a graph here, you get 20 points.


So nowhere in here in this ranking system does it say, well, my house is worse looking than your house.


So it's very important to state that every one of these applications was not graded on is your house worse than my house.


Not at all. So that's wrong for people to believe this. This is what the state of Illinois is going to look at for every one of these.


So when we look at any application, that is how an independent organization reviewed these applications.


So I think it's very wrong to tell the public that that's how this grant was administered because it was not.


When this house was chosen, when it came to council, I asked, why this house?


Why this one first? And you talked about that point system and they applied, they're on the list, they qualify Fier, they this, they that.


True, I did say that and I stand by that. I stand by that if this ever was audited however you want to go by this and however attorney Zito is determined legally can show this information, this information will be showed.


I've looked at it multiple times. I've looked at our contractor who reviewed these applications and we went step by step by step with the state on how to administer this and that's exactly what we did.


So you can't accuse the city of saying, well, Wayne gave ten points here because that's his favorite.


No, we hired a professional. I never said that. But I'm just stating that that is how this grant was.


I'm saying I want to understand the grant and I want to understand your little point system and I want access to the state government pertaining to this grant.


You could certainly call and ask the Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity and and so on.


So, whatever information they can give you, they will. I don't control that, you know, the DCEO and what they do.


Okay, we're ready to move on. Alderman Stacy, you technically made a motion, given the fact that you're going to have a meeting, do you want to withdraw your motion just to clean that part up?


I really would like to have everything stopped until there's a total understanding on these and that, that the application wasn't filled wrong.


So if you want to consider that, that stop then because it was written on here as a discussion at the very next council meeting that can be put on for as a motion to be made and seconded to have basically impose a moratorium on the issuance of any further grants under this application, or under this program.


Do we treat that like the last one and take a vote on if it moves forward to the next council as a...


No, it's going to move forward. I think, because she can always, any two Aldermen can always ask for something to be put on the agenda.


So that's basically what I'm suggesting that if Alderman Stacy and another Alderperson want to have that item put on the agenda, they can have it put on the agenda.


Okay, so that would be for discussion. You're not tasking Attorney Zito to draw up some thing.


Am I correct on that? What I asked for you saying I can't have. Not tonight because of the heading on the agenda.


So it can go on to another agenda. For discussion, how does that change? George.


For the next agenda, it can be, you know, discussion slash, you know, motion or motion to, you know, motion for to instruct, you know, attorney to draft moratorium.


That's what I wanted clarity on. But that's ultimately however, you know, Alderman Stacy wants to phrase it.


or half the moratorium then. and the Mayor. I would like for you to do just that.


So it will be on the agenda. And I make a motion right now that it be put on the agenda without the word discussion.


So you're tasking him to write this up? Yes. I'm saying that you don't need to make a motion tonight, okay, if you want, because, right, we have the rule that says any two Aldermen can have something placed on the agenda, right, but then what if, what if December, two, three more properties come to move forward with a roof or whatever is needed, and you could vote against, I mean, they were voted right, you voted against, right, it's going to be five to three or four to four and then the mayor's going to vote and she's going to vote for it.


Wayne, do we have like is it likely between now and December the first meeting of December?


I don't think I have to double check our schedule. I have to double check to see where we're at on the next because as as stated before before these can move forward we have to schedule the we have that hired independent contractor and he actually had an accident in his family So, he was missing some time, so we had to delay some of the inspections, but I'll double check to see where we're at on those independent inspections.


So I was told Wednesday that there had been a halt put on 1010, so are you telling me you're moving forward now?


1010, okay, so 1010, the short answer to your question is the contractors not had started work, and I told them to stop, and they've stopped at 1010.


I've asked them to stop because I said there was an agenda item where, and there was concerns About the application and I said I needed to talk with our older people and our attorney because when I talked to our Consultant about it at the staff level our consultant meeting MSA myself we scoured the Income records I had a meeting with the property owner And I said I can't find anything that would disclose that would preclude this person from moving forward with the grant they followed all the rules and I said I can't and our consultant could not find a reason to stop it, but I said said, and our consultant actually suggested, and I agreed, they said if something is going to move forward, it's going to have to be legal action, talk to your attorney because I can't see a reason to stop it.


So I said, yes, please put it on halt until we can figure out what we're doing.


So from the staff level, I did tell the contractor to stop working on the project until this is figured out.


For 1010 Southat, I've told them to stop. Until it's figured out. Okay, so we have a motion, do we, I forgot, did we have a second on that, to halt, to task Attorney Zito to draft, halting all, a moratorium, yeah, right, there, so I guess, right, so this will be similar to like what we did on just a few, yeah, a few other ones as to whether or not the council wants to move forward with basically looking into this more, by having my office put something together for your guys' consideration. Okay, so is there a second on that.


Yeah, I just have a question. So if we were to stop this, that would stop the people that are getting the roofs, that's getting the windows, that's getting all that stops 10-10 only. No, but you took a vote on it and it didn't pass.


What you just said for a motion, we haven't voted on it yet. Your motion was to ask him to halt all CBDG projects. Yes. We haven't voted on that yet. But 24 and 25 would stop all that. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Would we want to stop? Is this a state grant? Okay, so pardon me? Yes. This is a state grant. Yes. The money is already there, right? Yes.


deadlines by the way yeah and that's why i'm saying what deadlines i originally this um grant had a deadline of november of this month of this year and so i'd say i think it was back three months ago i started the process of a grant extension and had a multitude of reasons on why we needed a grant extension so the state of ill this is one of the most restrictive grants you're going to to find, I've worked with several different communities in looking, you know, I'm going back when I started, when I was hired on here, going on three years, one of my biggest dedications I've done for this community is working on a way to unlock this money for these homeowners because the state was like, every step of the way I would say, hey, can I move forward with this?


And they would say, okay, here's 10 more, here's 10 more roadblocks you have to get through before you can get the people this money.


and others. There's another 10 roadblocks. And so I would get to a point and then there would be more roadblocks.


And then, you know, we got to a certain point and then it was like, hey, hire this consultant.


Where can we go? You know, how can we get the people to aid? And it really kind of seemed like the state was trying to just put all these bureaucratic roadblocks in front of us so that we would hit the deadline.


But our consultant was really great and it really helped us put together an extension, not from November, but they got it done for May.


So my staff has done a tremendous amount of work. I looked at the binder today and it was probably about 16 inches tall which is paperwork for this actual grant application. So the answer to your question is the grant is currently, I believe the extension goes until May of 26. And I will say that, I'm sorry, May of 25. It feels like time flies when you're having fun. So I would state that when in In working with the DCEO who administers this grant, they said if you continue to show progress, there's a very good chance you'll get another extension in May to bring all the people this aid.


So certainly delaying the process and putting a moratorium is going to put more of a strain on staff to make sure that we can get the rest of the people the aid they need for this grant.


Alderman Sellers. Alderman Sellers. Yes. Didn't you guys go out and your staff go out door to door in that whole area and ask each one each how homeowner that qualified in that area? My under sorry that no, I'm just saying I remember I don't know if it was was it.


Kirsten. Yeah, I know it was Kirsten, but I'm saying I don't know if it was people from the NAACP or somebody wanted to help you push and help you promote it and you had enough staff members to go out and you guys went home to home asking people did they want to qualify to be a part of this.


That is to help you clarify what happened there. So I think anytime there's a grant and people think that there's money to be had, I think there's a lot of misinformation that's going out.


So one thing, there's a couple things to remember here. Many of the people who submitted these grants to me, they said, I'll work with you all day. Please don't, I don't necessarily want my neighbor to know how much money I make.


I don't want my neighbor to know where am I getting my money. Those are specific requests as sometimes the information is being handed to me.


So it's a challenging grant from a lot of different aspects and you're working with people also would say that You know, there's just people would say well don't let don't trust him. Don't trust it. There's money to be had So there's going to be some mudslinging I think going on but the answer to your question is I had I Had to when I came in all of the grant applications the process you're talking about had been done. It was closed and inspired to take a moment and say, if you try this and you're just willing to take a break, then this is what you are going to do.


But as a publicist, what I'm going to do is I'm going to use a channel of information that goes into the public's mind and what happens is if somebody foyers this information, I will have to give certain parts of it away and they all understood that I would do my best.


And that's what happened with that situation. to write this up for halting all projects. Madam Clerk, would you please take the roll? Stacy? Aye. Shadle? No. Sanders? Aye. Sellers? No. Klemm? No. Monroe? Aye.